Champion's Mojo for Masters Swimmers
Get your MOJO ON! Champions talk with Champions about topics that are interesting and important to Masters Swimmers, or anyone that wants to be inspired. We explore what makes a champion in sports, but most importantly in life, through deep questions, fun quizzes and an authentic desire to inspire others. Co-hosted by two world record setting masters athletes, Kelly Palace and Maria Parker, each bring unique experiences to the show. You'll benefit from their insightful perspectives as they talk with champions, coaches and experts.For more visit ChampionsMojo.com.
Champion's Mojo for Masters Swimmers
Destroy Mental Blocks and Boost Performance with Ashley Eckermann, Sports Psych Expert, EP 247
Unlock the secrets to mastering your mental game with sports psychology expert Ashley Eckermann, our guiding light through the mental mazes we often find ourselves in. Ashley unravels how mental blocks, far from being sheer acts of willpower, are instead physiological responses to stress that can throw off even the most skilled performers. Together, we delve into the root causes—fear, anxiety, and the stress response in the brain—that result in these daunting obstacles. Armed with Ashley's insights, we illuminate how athletes can overcome the mental hurdles that stand between them and their peak performance, revolutionizing the way they approach their sport.
Ashley's expertise doesn't just transform athletes; her strategies hold power to change lives. She offers sage advice on how to shift focus from potential pitfalls to executing with precision, leveraging techniques such as breathing exercises and neuroplasticity to rewire the brain for success. But it doesn't stop with sports; these tactics are a game-changer for anyone looking to enhance decision-making and emotional management in their professional and personal life. By learning to make decisions without the cloud of emotions, we gain clarity and confidence that guide us toward our goals with steadfast resolve.
As we bid farewell to Ashley, our Champions Mojo community is left with a wealth of actionable tips and a renewed sense of empowerment. From the importance of celebrating small victories and embracing self-compassion to the power of support systems and the joy found in the journey of growth, this episode is a testament to the profound impact of mindset on performance. We conclude with a reminder that consistent, incremental steps can lead to monumental transformations, in sports and beyond. Join us on this inspiring voyage, where each stride we take brings us closer to becoming champions in every aspect of our lives.
Email us at HELLO@ChampionsMojo.com. Opinions discussed are not medical advice, please seek a medical professional for your own health concerns.
Welcome to the award-winning Champions Mojo hosted by two world record-holding athletes. Be inspired as you listen to conversations with champions and now your hosts, kelly Palace and Maria Parker.
Speaker 2:Hello friends, Welcome to the Champions Mojo podcast, the podcast where we talk about things that are interesting, inspirational and important to master swimmers. I'm your host, Kelly Palace, and, as usual, I am co-hosting with Maria Parker. Hey, Maria.
Speaker 3:Kelly, good to be with you today.
Speaker 2:Great to see you, maria. I'm so excited about today's show because we are going to demystify mental blocks, and this is for professional growth or athletic growth, personal. We're going to really break this down. We're going to break free from limitations. We're investigating common mental obstacles that hinder our growth, techniques to release tension and how to make better decisions and overcome the fear of disappointment. And we are going to do this with an expert joining us today as our guest is Ashley Ekerman, who is a sports psychology practitioner and founder of Maximize the Mind Mental Performance Coaching in Cypress, texas. She teaches athletes and performers of all ability levels how to thrive under pressure. She has developed tools to help overthinkers gain confidence, let go of mistakes quicker and conquer overwhelm. Ashley has a bachelor's degree in psychology and a master's degree in sports psychology, so she knows what she's talking about. Maria, what else can you tell us about Ashley?
Speaker 3:During Ashley's career she's coached all Americans state champions, olympians, professionals and received Coach of the Year awards. As a multiple-time Iron man finisher, she truly appreciates the role mental toughness plays and continuously strives to inspire and engage others to maximize our mindsets, because mental skills training is life-changing. Actually, welcome to Champions Mojo.
Speaker 4:Hi you guys, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3:We're so delighted.
Speaker 2:Yes, and so we talked a little bit about this before we even started recording. What a perfect fit for what you do and Maria and I and our listeners and we didn't even talk about this part of it but Champions Mojo when we came out five years ago, our original tagline was Champions Mojo for mindset, and so obviously, mindset plays a huge role in everything we do. But it's just, it's really cool that we love this topic. We talk about it often. It is the Mojo that makes a difference in the Olympians. We've talked to the Olympic coaches, the people that have lost 125 pounds, the Iron man people, so it's really exciting. And let's just kick off. What is a mental block, ashley?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'll use the word that you guys used in the title. I'm going to demystify, because there's so much crap out there. There's so much, I think, just myths and misinformation and whatever. So I'm going to give you the nerdy, scientific like definition and then we're going to like middle talk.
Speaker 4:Okay, so mental blocks are like this physiological barrier that inhibits people's ability to previously do things that were easy or effortless or automatic. So we have skills and we're like oh yeah, I know how to do that, I can do that in my sleep, and a block is actually something that disrupts motor skills. So a lot of coaches and there's this one they just don't know the research will say whatever you want it or just go for it or just dig deeper that typical motivation cue, and it's actually cognitive. So at the core, middle block service fear of what the outcome could be, and then it's fear activates the brain's stress response. So then you're more anxious and when you're more anxious it totally messes up your muscle coordination, it messes up your muscle memory patterns and then all the things that you thought you could do, you've now become ridiculous and don't know how to do them.
Speaker 4:So, like, from that neurological perspective, they're just linked to the brain wiring too fast. It's like this over biochemical response. It's like this over activity in your prefrontal cortex and I know that's fancy for most people they don't talk about that. It's just the brain of its decisions, and so it almost paralyzes it. You've heard people use the phrase like paralysis by analysis or something like that. That's kind of what happens, and so it's not that they don't want to do the skill that they know how to do. It's not that they don't want to get better. It's just almost like it's buried, and so athletes will often come to me and they'll say I forgot how to do this.
Speaker 4:I'm, like you didn't forget, you just think you forgot, and really it's just not on the surface level anymore and something that I think is really important to correct. Parallels are definitely caused from a psychological perspective, but also physiological, so it's not just, oh, I didn't feel like it or I freaked myself out or I got scared. There is something that happens in the body that paralyzes us and makes us freeze. But I will tell you that the majority of people think they had metal blocks, when they don't only have a metal block, and a lot of athletes will come to me and I work with athletes in my office and I work with inversely all over the world and they'll say, oh, I have this block and so I'll give them a chance, like, how many of what's happening for you? Or tell me what's going on that you would say that.
Speaker 4:But in my experience, the people that have a trumental block are golfers, baseball players, softball players, gymnasts, true leaders, and they physically can't tap into their talent. So they know how to do a skill, but their motor functioning is actually blocked and they can't physically do what they used to go to do on autopilot. I know your audience is typically triathletes and cyclists and swimmers, but I'm going to tell you a lot of people are kids that are in other sports and so I'm always like they might really have a metal block. And you know those are from watching someone get hurt or being yelled at and being totally embarrassed, or an injury or a fall or something like that. But when we talk about people that say I have a block and I said it mostly wouldn't really.
Speaker 4:So a swimmer that comes with me or a triathlete, tennis player, soccer player, so just other typical sports, they'll say, well, I haven't got a block. And really it's usually like a steer that's based on something that they hadn't done before. So they feel like they can't and, yes, they are physically like I can't do it, they are pulling themselves back from achieving it. But it's not a motor skill barrier. That's when it's a middle barrier. And it's middle because it's so easy to say I haven't got a block, because then maybe it's not my fault, maybe that's not what's wrong, because you know we don't like to do the problem, but in reality you're the problem, you're also the solution. So I just tell people that's like something that we don't realize. Most of the time it's fear and not a true physical block.
Speaker 2:Marie and I picked this topic and we know swimmers. So definitely the sports you named golf my husband's a golfer and baseball players and those people softball players and gymnasts, like you said. But in swimming I think that a swimmer can have a it's not a fear. But the middle block can be I don't think I can ever swim that time, or I don't think I could ever make the Olympic team, or I don't think I could ever be that fast or maybe even as simple, as I don't think I could ever do a flip turn, even though I think anybody can do a flip turn. So if it's not a fear, I think people like stories, and so Zina and I Zina's one of our master swimmers.
Speaker 2:This morning we were talking about her goals for this next age group and we were looking at records that she could break and she looked at the times and it just so happens that the woman that holds the local Florida records, the zone records, and is also the world record holder, just happens to be in our Florida LMSC. So usually you can go after I'm gonna break the local record, then I'll break the regional record, then maybe the national record, then maybe the world record. World record holder is right here. So Zina looked at these times and she's like I can't do those times. So to me that's not a fear. If she did them she would be thrilled, but I believe that she has a mental block against them. So can you address something like that for swimmers?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so it is a fear that she can't do it. So we just define fear differently. So what she has is a false belief. She has a limiting belief that I haven't done that before. So I don't know if I believe enough in my ability to do it and I don't know if I have enough guts, courage, whatever you want to call it to say. And I do that because it's so much easier to protect ourselves, because we tend to think I can't do it if I haven't achieved it before. But you guys, I know there's so many things that hadn't break a record.
Speaker 4:Well, yeah, do it before anybody else has done it, or so it's like we are allowed to give ourselves permission to do something before we've ever done it, and you get there faster by recognizing that story, that you're telling yourself that I can't do this, or here's why I can't do this, and you can have the greatest evidence and justification on why it's probably really hard or why it's impossible for you. So it really isn't a turtle fear. We just look at fears differently, and I think maybe something that would also help understand when we label something we tend to attach to it. So if I don't know what, then it stays a barrier For a long time. If I say there's something that is scary, then it remains scary for a long time because it's people just like saying I'm not good at math or I'm not good at a certain stroke, I'm not good at a certain stroke incident, right, I want to have a sad or not a good kicker, so don't put me in a kick set. And we think we can't do something and it's just how we define it. So I always caution people. The more I talk about what I'm trying to avoid or is scary or overwhelming, the farther I push myself back from that. And we know that. We heard that. But we love to bet and we love to bond and complaining and stuff like that is when we do that we think I know that I'm just pitching, but it's like we say it and we start to believe whatever we say. Our mind becomes what we tell it knows. So I think it's important to know.
Speaker 4:Fear is just the first way I describe it, but honestly it's performance anxiety which is just creating that racing heart rate, the muscle tension, it's the physiological change that disrupts that muscle memory. It disrupts your focus. But another thing that really is rooted in what people call blocks is fear of failure, because what if I'm not good enough? And people don't like also the term fear of failure. Maybe it's fear of judgment. Maybe it's fair of disappointment. It's there. It's just what puts your brain in them worry mode, or what cognitive overload and in the key mirror is recognizing. The brain is always going to try to protect you. Right, the brain is always going to try to keep you safe. So it's going to give you all these crazy physiological symptoms and it's going to make your heart races, all, make you sweat, it's going to make your stomach queasy, but you don't have to believe the brain's message. Right, you can counteract. That you're in charge of your thoughts now doesn't mean we're going to catch all of them.
Speaker 2:How do you stop overthinking? Because I really want it. We promised a lot, so we promised the common obstacles releasing tension, how to overcome this fear, and how do you stop overthinking?
Speaker 4:So that's such a loaded question because there's so many things obviously that creates that first you're going to have to recognize the source. What is it that we're fearing that might go wrong? And then also, what is creating that like cycle? Because everybody's going to overthink, we all overthink, you're never going to turn it off, because it's just like nerves you're never going to not be nervous about. For me, because then you don't really care about the results or the outcome. So the key would be recognizing it and then say when do I repeat that thought? And then when do I be like okay, I can be something, I can get a better option and then also having coping skills. So I have things to distract tool because a lot of people will overthink.
Speaker 4:When I'm behind the block, when I'm at the start line in, that's absolutely normal. I'm sitting there super experienced with this and I'm like I need to have to pee, oh, I have to pull, oh, because you're just experiencing those symptoms and I have to go. Do those symptoms? Are they reality? Is that what's going to happen? Or is that my body trying to tell me okay, are you ready for this? And it's not like you're okay with overthinking, but a lot of it is like accepted to, knowing that's normal but it sucks, but it's right on cue, and then knowing that I'm going to put myself in a situation that is overwhelming. But I'm choosing that because I don't want to be a person that sits on the couch, because I want to go through this goal, because I love the feeling afterwards and then choosing to focus on what I get out of it versus the feelings Like you're. Choosing to focus on your ability and it doesn't mean you feeling control, because I think people want to turn off everything you may feel in control. You're probably never going to have that feeling if that thing you're doing is big, but it's more of tricking the brain in the process, the brain in the perceiving control, doing strategies that distract you.
Speaker 4:The brain loves like demifying things and like dissolving puzzles, tasks, and so if I can do certain things in the moment just to buy me five, six, seven seconds, oh, now it's time to go. That's really helpful. And then also knowing, like the root of what is it that I'm worried about? Because most people are seeing I've been about what could go wrong Instead of what do I actually want to happen? And we don't like think that's enough, and I know I'm over simplifying it, but it is also like enough to guide and funnel your focus, because the brain just really craves instructions and most of us are going, but here's why I can't. Oh, here's one. This is going to be hard, and you're right, it is really hard, but why can you? And just redirecting, like your attention, I know that's probably not what you know.
Speaker 2:That's no, that's a, that's beautiful.
Speaker 4:They're like secret, but it's doing work into figuring out. Why are you over thinking and what are you over thinking?
Speaker 3:It seems like you're talking about performance anxiety in terms of right before I do my activity. But then there's also the stuff Wayne advanced, like what you were discussing, kelly, with Zina's. Like Zina just looks at those numbers and sees pain, or so. If we could maybe give Three tips, I might say the same thing as, like, I know I can't do that. What would you say to me? I'm coming to you, coach, I want to break records, but I look at these numbers and I know I can't do it. What do you say? What's three things I can do?
Speaker 2:But you can is the point. There was a guy on YouTube who decided he was going to make the Olympic team in swimming because he loved Olympic swimming, but he had no swimming background. The point is, zina can swim these times. She can swim these times.
Speaker 3:But if you're talking to Zina, yeah, what do you say? That's what I want to know.
Speaker 4:I will say Kelly, you're right, there's so much detail that goes into who you're talking to. Such a generically answer. It is difficult because I think honestly this might sound ugly, but that's the problem I think with like sports, psychology and middle training in general is people think it's like positive thinking or they think it's like affirmations or just having more productive thoughts and there's so much more depth into it that are like tactical and tangible tools that you can do is that then they go oh, I'm just not going to mess up, I'm just not going to positive thinking, or I'm just going to come up with a person and that knows back to oh, I just can't achieve that time. So then we lump it into oh, I know what that step is. I don't know if that will help me. And in reality it's so specific to what you're dealing with, like we can really give a better answer or attaching it to a person and we know a background with them. But to give you something off of like someone that says I don't know if I can go these times, I would go.
Speaker 4:Where are you getting that story from? Or where are you getting that evidence? Like, what have you done in the past? What is realistic. Let's look at something because you're always going to go with I can't, because it's protective, it's an easier statement, and we're going to look at reprogramming your subconscious. It actually is relatively easy to change yourself in age and you look at what expectations have I had for me? Why would I come up with now? Why would I say there's no way I can do this? Where is that really coming from?
Speaker 4:And then we will teach you know reading exercises, calming box, alter ego, escape room, how to use neuro plasticity, imagery. We will teach strategies to calm you down so that you can go. Wait a minute, I can look at this less Emotionally attached and I can be more logical. I now so more in control. And again, you may not feel control, but your brain receives control. So it's like I know in a better place. That feels calmer. Maybe we're not getting you calm because gotta be realistic, reading you calmer there wouldn't work. And so I can change my limiting beliefs, that full story to have believed for so long. And then we start making steps towards this is how it's actually believable for you and this is where we redirect your focus. So it's a process, but it is possible to change, because I've had a ton of people that had gone on to make Olympic teams and Swayed for like D1 colleges that they never thought they were going to and what they started doing the work. It was like you take the backpack of rocks off.
Speaker 3:I love this statement. It's relatively easy to change yourself image. Huh, that's such an encouraging statement.
Speaker 4:It really is scientifically how to rewire your brain, but people are intimidating so they're like who? I don't know if I can do that. I'm like, let's try. I want you to be the first one that tells me it can't be done, and I use this statement all the time.
Speaker 4:I'm like you're not a unicorn, your brain has the same Neurological pathways as someone else. You can do it. We just got to put in a little work and for someone to go wait a minute. I can scientifically change, not, only, just not that type of person. Yeah, you can change your identity and I can do it as little as three weeks, and obviously it doesn't happen for everybody who thinks let's be real. But you can change based on repetition. So it's not I'm good at this or I'm not good at this. It doesn't have to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so is that some of that cognitive behavior therapy? Do you use that in sports psychology?
Speaker 4:I will be really honest. There's a ton of strategies make. Of course, I learned in grad school and everything else that I Really believe what has made me good with athletes over the years is story-blowing, its connection, it's ability to relate and it's the 900 books I've probably read yes, yeah, how did you out there? And people just don't have the turn to research. So that's what I do. I've done all the research.
Speaker 4:Let me share a little nugget with you that maybe is not as popular or Oversold and you're like wow, and when you share something that you haven't heard before, you're just more likely to go oh, maybe that's my secret sauce, maybe that will work for me, because we have all these other things that were like this didn't help me. Or I have people that we know visualization is incredible, but so many people struggle with it because they just picture what could go wrong. So then they write off like the whole strategy, instead of be like let's work on that, and we would totally work on that and I would teach them how to do it and the mistakes people make. But in reality I go back to Little tiny tools that maybe they haven't heard of and they're like oh, so they are more open to an idea because it's new and just like doing a new drill. It's like maybe this is the thing that will work for me and that changes like how we look at something.
Speaker 2:I'm very good.
Speaker 3:I love what you said about connecting through the storytelling. So talk about storytelling stories. We tell ourselves stories, we tell each other. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 4:Yeah, everybody's told themselves I'm good. And where did it come from? Could it come from your parents? It could come from teachers. They come from coaches.
Speaker 4:I'm 43 years old and I still remember things that my age group coach said to me when I was 12 that's nuts and I know better. That's really crazy gets. I know better, but I imprinted it and get a repeat of it over and over again and I tied a little bit of myself word to how good I was and what time I went and what meet I qualified for, and so I think a lot of us have to go. When do I need to let go of that? How long am I going to carry that and so doing the work to go? What is it that I've maybe said?
Speaker 4:And the thing I think that happens for a lot of stories is that they're not negative. Some of them are negative I suck at fly or something, or I would never be able to do an Iron man Like. I hear things like that and those are negative. But for the most part some of the stories are what is so? I'm not experienced or I don't spend masters anymore, but I used to for years and I heard so many people say I Just started swimming and these people been swimming a long time, they've been swimming their whole life. I can't keep up with them, I'm not as good as them, and they're like see, that's not negative, because that's true, and so they may genuinely believe that story been reality.
Speaker 4:You could grow, you could get better. You may not be as good as this person, but you can improve. Or you can enjoy the sport with different expectations Associated in, different goals tied to it. But we tend to say things that not even an I can't, but maybe just that would be really hard. So then we're like oh, I can't do hard things. Well, we know that's not true, but it's. We don't recognize that a lot of what we repeat is like detrimental Because it doesn't sound negative to us. It sounds true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how can athletes make better decisions?
Speaker 4:to learn to trust their decisions, I think a lot of middle rehearsal, and I don't just mean visualizing the perfect race, I think that's you know a lot of people think but actually mentally Practicing scenarios, because you're getting your brain like this dress rehearsal and you actually can be more confident in your decisions If I've placed myself in that decision Previously. So you're training your brain on what will go wrong and so many people avoid this. I have parents, I have adult athletes, I have kids that will avoid this because they go. Actually I don't want anything to go wrong. Well, what I think about man and I'm like, okay, yeah, except it's not.
Speaker 4:If it's when come on, something's not going right and say you're getting your brain a game plan in the best response so it again can perceive control, actually knowing what I'm gonna feel like when my legs are on fire and it's the last 12 meters Old work, the last two models in the marathon or whatever it is you're doing, if I know I can survive, that, I know I can push past that, then my brain goes oh, okay, we've been here before, we have made it, we didn't die, and I know that sounds melodramatic. That's what we all think. What is it? The most common phrase I hear from swimmers is, but I don't want to die in a 500.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I'm not gonna go out too fast because I'll die. And I'm like okay, so then do you think they go out at the right pace? No, because they're worried about going out too fast. So they will literally help themselves back and and what they're saying is I'm so fearful of what could go wrong. And then they don't really train yeah, it's gonna hurt if you're working hard. I hope it does hurt. And then you're not accepting.
Speaker 4:I like pain, that's fake, you're not gonna be fake. But you're saying you know what pain is temporary and pain gets me the reward, and pain is part of being an endurance athlete. So I know that doesn't mean I'm hitting dirt or I can't do it or I can't finish it. It's part of Accepting that type of event or that type of race. Right, so having your routines Because they improve, focus them in the brain, goes oh, I've done this before. So now I feel prepared. Because I'll tell you, it's not so much what you have in the routine, it's the fact that your brain goes Okay, I've done everything. You feel prepared. Because when you're getting ready, we're like, oh, I'm already.
Speaker 4:I didn't do everything I need to do and it's just running through the motions to your brain goes oh, this is normal, this is what we do every time, and it's anticipating potential outcomes, because that helps to make decisions more confidently, teaching yourself to respond Versus react. So okay, when this situation happens, then the brain gun is okay. I know what I'm gonna do. That actually could increase your speed. It could increase your accuracy.
Speaker 4:Sleep deprivation Totally impairs decision-making. So even an extra 30 minutes of sleep a night no, that's probably not enough for you, but that actually improves your ability to make a decision better. We have the decision at the tea. You only have so many Opportunities to make a good decision and when we are constantly trying to think about all these different things, we get worn out. So limiting unnecessary decisions. What am I going to automatically do? What am I eating, no matter what? So I'm not inciting those little training things, because that does Start to deteriorate your performance. Or even Even mild hydration guys will be dehydrated. Even by 1% Impairs how I think and I know most of my people I work with are not. I don't do that. So just Reflecting on things so that I know what can I probably Pre-decide or how can I pre-plan my thoughts, and you're not gonna get everything. But then I'm not going. Should I do this, should I do that, should I do this? And then you're exhausted. And then where you have a look to go in your performance, I love all that.
Speaker 3:Oh, my gosh, I can we apply this to? I'll just give you an example, a professional example, not sports. I own a business and the sales of the thing that I sell go up and down. And when I'm selling a lot, I'm high, I'm making plans for the future, it's gonna be great. And when I'm having a two or three week period where things are not going, then I am thinking all these thoughts about you know failure and it inhibits my ability to work towards more sales. How would you work with me?
Speaker 4:That's so typical, right? The first thing we do when something doesn't go lady ask brand or we sell on demand courses and we do workshops and stuff like that. So, yeah, if I don't have the sales I'd spent on the first day, oh girl, I'm all like that was a dumb idea, because I'm human too and I will go. I don't know if that was worth it. And in reality, your brain is always gonna try to say why something will be successful, because it's ultimately saying I don't want you to get embarrassed, yeah, I don't want you to feel bad, I don't want you to be exposed. And so then I have to decide am I gonna believe that You're right, viji? Somebody asked and you go I know I have done this, I know I have survived this, or I know I have overcome something. I gotta go through it to get on the end to actually reflect was this good, was this not good? I think the true thing comes down to I probably don't wanna believe whatever I'm emotionally thinking in the middle of a launch, in the middle of a business decision, in the middle of a merger, right, if there's something you're doing, I'm not gonna take information that I have coming in until it's done until the emotion has dissipated and I make almost a pat to myself to say, okay, I gotta look at this away from it and knowing that the fear of not being good enough is absolutely common. But I get to decide what I believe. And I think the other thing that I'll say that I think is really helpful why people don't realize they do it. We don't need to do this, but we do it. We focus so much on the outcome I want a certain number of people to find out, or I want a certain amount of sales, or I have to get so many prospects, whatever and honestly, when we're so focused on that, we feel like it's not possible for us. And so you've probably heard of focusing on the process, not the outcome.
Speaker 4:In business or in sports, you're not just thinking about the scoreboard. So I know I get hung up on maybe end of year amount or a lot of my triathletes will call me what their goal time is, and so they'll be like, oh, this is the time I'm going, and I'm like, okay, cool, we can talk about that and we can get excited and that's good, but you gotta be about things that are under your control. And I think when you get desperate I know we had talked about this a little before but you push yourself away from those things instead of allowing yourself to receive it. If you've already I don't know messed up your race or the weather's bad or something like that, and you're like I don't know if I'm gonna go my goal time, you better have some other markers, you better have some other things to kind of measure. So like thousand Iron man and I try to end this swim.
Speaker 4:I'm never pleased with my time because I'm a forest rower so I'm always like, oh, that could have been better. But I'll tell you, I get proud of myself when I'm like I don't get mad when someone kicks me in the face in the swim. So I'm like, help me, I'll get help, because someone always kicks you and maybe I'll give myself credit because I was calmer before the start or I remembered my nutrition on the bike every 15 minutes. I don't think I've ever done a race where I've actually nailed that right, Because we get distracted and all this stuff. Or maybe my run time is totally blown, but I still kept my run walk interval and maybe my run was a sad little shuffle, but I'm still doing that instead of throwing in the towel and just only walking. So I think measuring part of the process and taking ownership when I still have control over this but I don't have control over the outcome really will separate you from the emotion of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great. I love that and, in particular I think I alluded to this in the intro we have had people email us about how to make decisions for life Should I marry this guy, should I take this job, and what I'm hearing and I know we're specifically talking about athletes, but what I'm hearing is make those decisions when you're not emotional. Is there anything you would add to that?
Speaker 4:I know that people will hear this and they will go. Yeah, that's easy to say because y'all are just having a conversation right now. But when panic mode is so hard, you have to practice it, Because it's just like a fear of public speaking or something like that. Right, Nobody wants to go get on stage. But in reality we know, the more opportunities I get on stage, I desensitize myself to it and I become never maybe loving it or never maybe considering myself great, but I get a little more OK with it. I have a little bit more experience, I've had a little bit more exposure, so I go OK, this is how I'm going to handle it. And then that goes back to being able to reflect OK, here's how I did it before. Maybe it wasn't as bad as I anticipated, and not making decisions based on what you anticipate, but making decisions more based on that.
Speaker 3:Yes, great, I love it and I love this concept of getting out of the emotion. Yeah, that is very helpful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think every big decision I've ever made has been made emotionally.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It could explain my multiple marriages, but yeah, I love that.
Speaker 4:I will tell you, so is everybody else, because that's how the movies operated, so it's not like you're.
Speaker 4:I know this is for audio woolly, so I'm doing air quotes right now, but it's not like you're doing it wrong. You're doing it like most people do, because I was a teacher for 14 years and a coach before I went into private practice, so I feel like I can sing to this Work for a liberal school system. We just teach black and white learning. We teach subjects. We don't teach coping skills. We don't teach people how to make decisions. We don't really talk about how do you handle something that doesn't go your way. We're like hook it up buttercup. You have to learn how to recognize it before you could have been good at it, girl.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We don't. This is so great. So, having had both performance anxiety and regular garden variety, I'm anxious about whatever my 93-year-old dad and what am I going to do with this part of my life, or that I'm aging, and all those things that we're anxious about in life. Am I making enough money? Am I going to get fired from my job? So anxiety has overtaken our society. It is probably the most prevalent mindset problem. Is there something that you can share with our listeners who, yeah, performance anxiety is almost guaranteed. If you're going to have a great performance, you're going to have performance anxiety. But what about people who are just really anxious of the news and the world and the war and the politics, and the jobs and the relationships? Anything there?
Speaker 4:Yeah, god don't you wish you could just turn off the world.
Speaker 2:Or turn off our minds.
Speaker 4:Which is it, and I think that's what a lot of people see. So when they still have it going 70 miles per hour instead of 100 miles per hour, they go, oh, this is not working. So then we're quick to jump ship like shiny objects and I'll do something else. I'll do something else. That self-care strategy, that tool, that doesn't work. And did you really get yourself a chance to get good at it? No, probably not.
Speaker 4:And people talk about like rhythmic reading or diaphragm reading, and there's so much research on just getting better oxygen to your workflow. But the first couple of times you do any kind of deep breath, the mistake I see people might go with mine is they blow the air right back out. Did you let it get into your muscles or did it just stay up here in your chest cavity? Probably that. And then you go that deep breath Prattman worked. And I go, oh, ok, you probably didn't do it the right way and your body's never experienced it, so let's try it again. And then maybe 17 other times, because you got to practice anything that you want to see the effect and work on and you got to let your body have the exposure to it.
Speaker 4:I think people jump ship quickly. When they don't have that, it just immediate success, which is our society's problem. We just want instant gratification. So I think the first thing I'll say with that is am I being a perfectionist? And perfectionist is not just I have to get 100 on a test, it's am I afraid to try something new Because I'm afraid of being bad? I'm afraid of being a beginner. It's OK to be a beginner. I don't have to be good at everything the first time I try something, Because that leads to more anxiety. And is it OK to be average at something? And then I think I would look at past experiences. Am I making a decision based on how something went previously? Does that mean this guy that I'm dating is it going to be the exact same way? No, that's probably you making an assumption, which sometimes that helps us jump hair if you're better. But at the same time most of us take too much from the past and assume the future is going to be just like it. So then that leads to anxiety.
Speaker 4:The other thing I think that creates more anxiety, maybe in our culture now, is parents want better for their children than they had for themselves, which is a great thing, but then what happens is they get overly critical because they're always trying to correct, because they want them to do better. They want them to have a better life. That makes sense. It's never their intention to place pressure, but it's how it's received and how kids will proceed, what they meant. And so they become overly cautious because I don't want to let them down.
Speaker 4:And I will hear a parent after a parent say, oh my gosh, you can never disappoint me. But that's not maybe the message. The actions aren't matching what we're saying because they're so excited about how good they are on their sport. If they're talking about that more and they don't realize that, oh, all you guys ever talk about is your sport. Isn't that creates anxiety? Is anything my only value is if I do this and again we know that's not true, and I think the other thing that goes into it is how much we distort stuff, because we'll say this is how I think it's going to go, and usually we are all from the reality. And if I just recognize, am I storing this, am I exaggerating this, and then you can practice coping skills too, I think you can set yourself up. I was a super anxious person and overcame a lot, but I had to learn how to do it, and I think you have to be willing to try new things.
Speaker 3:I like what you're saying and what you opened with, which is there's plenty of things out there to help with anxiety, but they're not instant. You can't take a pill and then feel better, and so you have to look for gradual and this is something I don't do enough in my life. I want to be good and instead of looking for the ways that yeah, maybe I'm a little bit better today than I was yesterday, or at least I did the practice today Check, maybe I don't feel any better, but I did it I love that as an aspect of work. Like you say, as a culture, we want now, we want it all, we want it now, and with anxiety or depression or anything, you have to work at it a little bit In as little as three weeks, you said.
Speaker 2:Yeah, change that self-esteem. All right, the last question before our last question is how can we overcome fear of disappointment?
Speaker 4:I think it's a lot of what we had probably already said that just maybe setting realistic goals, celebrating really small things and not only giving ourselves credit for the big step. Because you know we do. We want the race, we want the goal, we want the record, we want to be on this team, we want to finish this impressive race or whatever, and, like we have said, it can't just be about winning, it has to be about growing, it has to be about the little tiny improvements. But most of us will go. That's not good enough. But you guys know, at the end of the day, if I save a little bit or I have a great high yield savings account that ends up really quick and so little tiny things are not something to scoff at or write off Definitely identify that irrational belief in that thought pattern that's contributing to the fear of disappointment and go wait a minute. How true is this? Or do I still need to carry this? Is this outdated? Is this 20 years old? And align with what you're wanting now. You get to rewrite your story. You're the author. You get to decide and not maybe have all these past experiences. Decide how you see yourself. You get to constantly change that and reframe. I think people think it has to be over nothing, a lot. If I don't have time to do the full workout, oh, then I'm just not going to do it. You could go outside and walk for five minutes and I know it's not maybe impressive or not a serious workout, but did you work out? Oh, you did.
Speaker 4:And giving yourself a little bit of credit for small things and not feeling like, well, my friend didn't do that and that's not good enough and guess what? You don't have to put it on Facebook, you don't have to say this was my time and here's a picture of my garbage, and so I think small things allow us to feel more in control of our stress and giving yourself that compassion. A lot of people struggle with giving themselves grace and compassion because they'll say that's like lowering my standards. If you're an adult athlete, you're a hype performer Because you're not just going to the bar every Saturday. You're doing something fun, you're growing, you're trying to better yourself. So it's OK to give yourself grace and be satisfied with what you're doing and still have room to grow.
Speaker 4:If I celebrate a time that I'm not like, oh, that really wasn't what I was going for. But did you finish? Did you get out there, it's OK to give credit and still have the ability to grow and get better. And that doesn't mean like you're putting a ceiling, you're not lowering your standards, because all the research shows, if I give myself a little bit of credit and I allow myself a few mistakes along the way and I allow myself some time to figure it out and it's ugly at the beginning you actually do get their fester because your brain no longer fears messing up, it no longer fears disappointment Because you've told yourself hey, yeah, this is probably typical, this is OK, this is part of this new thing.
Speaker 4:And then your brain ironically goes OK, they like this, this is OK. And you get there quicker because it's not trying to avoid messing up at all costs. And when we try to avoid, we tell our brain we can't handle it. And the last thing I'll just say is it's OK to seek support. We hire nutritionists, we hire personal trainers and we hire financial advisors. Don't expect yourself to have it all figured out. It's OK, it doesn't have to be forever, but figure out how to be more resilient instead of trying to problem solve yourself, because that's what takes forever. And then you get a scratch.
Speaker 3:That's great. Yeah, that's a great point actually.
Speaker 2:That is huge, huge takeaway for me. For me personally, I don't know if it's the perfectionist mindset or the instant gratification mindset which I know I don't have as a distance swimmer but to tell yourself, this is going to take some time to accomplish, whatever that is, and I might need help. It's going to be messy, but I'm going to get better at it as I go, instead of oh, it's been a week and it's still messy, and wow, I'm going to just avoid that because that's painful, and then your brain just keeps going into that failure mode of I'm a failure at this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I like the takeaway too, which is you might need help you might need a little help.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, we always say everybody needs to coach for everything.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think everybody thinks of it as talk therapy. Sometimes I don't make people journal about feelings. I'm not saying that's not helpful and there's not a good time and place for a lot of that, but sometimes help isn't what you assume it is. You know what I mean and you can learn different relaxation exercises. You can learn different things to lower your anxiety and then you can learn maybe what are some of the sources that you wouldn't have gotten to come up with on your own because you're so close to the problem.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:All right, before we have a fun sprint around of questions, which is just fun, is there anything you haven't shared with us, that you would like to share, that we haven't asked you? I?
Speaker 4:think it was just kind of about rest nugget. I think just people make assumptions. They know, like they do with master's plan, like they do with the race, and they're like, how is it as bad as I thought. Being open to working on yourself is just so powerful and rewarding, and it doesn't have to be ooey gooey emotions or anything like that. You can learn tangible tools that can make you better, maybe not just as an athlete, but also your work life, also as a parent, as a spouse, and one of the things that I love about what I do is, yes, I have a practice that caters to athletes and I work with athletes, but I'm always like, oh, but this is true life, this will help you in relationships, this will help you in school, this will help you make decisions, because we don't ever work on that kind of stuff. So allow yourself to, as cheesy as it sounds, put yourself first sometimes, because you're not going to just selfishly benefit for that one race. You're going to be better quality human for other things. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Awesome, awesome, excellent, all right, yes, thank you All right. Before we let you go, though, are you ready to play the sprinter round? They know me. Take your mark Favorite sandwich. Oh, totally a BLT. Ok, what do you own that you shouldn't throw?
Speaker 4:out Way too many expired nutrition things from races and I'm like one day I'll use this.
Speaker 2:Scariest animal. To you, I'm going to say snake. What celebrity would you most like to meet?
Speaker 4:OK, this is so easy for me, dolly Parton.
Speaker 2:I love it. All right, and I've got one more question that Maria is going to hit you with some. What is the hardest swimming event in the pool?
Speaker 4:I'm going to selfishly say for me it was toad-a-fly no way.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of people would agree with you.
Speaker 3:OK, what's your favorite movie?
Speaker 4:I'm going to go with Love Actually, favorite smell.
Speaker 3:Cookie's baking. Do you make your bed every morning? No Kick board or no kick board.
Speaker 4:Swim coach Ashley says no kick board for body position, but I'm retired so I don't have to say that anymore. Swimmer Ashley sends board for socialization and fun.
Speaker 3:OK, if you have to listen to one song for the rest of your life, what would it be?
Speaker 4:I don't know if I could pick one, but I would say anything about your sleep. You see Window or aisle.
Speaker 3:Oh window Describe your life in five words.
Speaker 4:Energy, excitement, dedication, no innovative.
Speaker 3:OK, last one. What word comes to mind when you dive in the water? Oh, cold, baby cold yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, baby, it's cold outside. Awesome. All right, Ashley, this has been wonderful. Thank you so much, thank you so much we know our listeners are going to get a ton out of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and we'll have information about your practice.
Speaker 2:Yes, we will have all your information in the show notes.
Speaker 4:Super cool. Thank you guys for having me. I love talking to you all. This is a fun one and you know they're the most fun, so I enjoy you all Thank you, ashley.
Speaker 2:Maria Ashley Ekerman what a dynamo, we said. The practitioner of mental performance coaching, founder of Maximize the Mind. She is amazing. I learned so much. What was your first takeaway?
Speaker 3:I did too. I love talking with her. There was so much good stuff in there, but I'm going to start with. We talked about decision making and that I can get so stymied in decisions, and her great tip was to separate out emotion from it and also don't try to make a bunch of decisions all at once is a decision fatigue thing. Just keep it simple and try to separate out the feelings, all the failure, the excitement, whatever it is all the emotions. When you make a decision, be clearheaded and do it when you're not making a million other decisions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that. She said based on facts, not on fear or emotion. And we talked about the fact that Steve Jobs and the Facebook guy they all wore black t-shirts because they did so many decisions to make. They just want to wake up in the morning and put on a black t-shirt.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, even though.
Speaker 2:Andrew Feuberman wears a black shirt because it hides his tattoos. I learned that he has beautiful tattoos. My first takeaway that I just loved and I said it in the show is that when we are learning a new skill or trying to change our minds, trying to change our self-image, trying to do something that our mind is not used to, I love that. She said if you tell your mind this is going to be a slow process, this is going to be messy, it's not going to be easy. You celebrate your progress, not the outcome.
Speaker 3:I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I loved also that she talked about giving yourself grace and compassion, so I really like that. It's going to be hard to do a mindset change, but that was a great takeaway for me.
Speaker 3:I love that too. I think we tend to just want to know right away it's black and white, I'm better, and we forget to just try things for a while and look for things. And that really leads to my second takeaway, which is that you can change. I think so many of us feel stuck. We might know we can change house or lose weight or whatever, but we don't think we can change the way we are wired in our brain, and that is not true. We can change. You can change the way you think about things. You can change the stories you tell yourself. You can change. You can become less anxious, less depressed, more successful, more kind. Whatever you can change. That was a great takeaway for me, even though I know that to be true. It's a good reminder.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and she opened with saying but you can change yourself image, which is really huge, change your confidence level. I love that. All right, my last takeaway was kind of tied into the first one, but that when we focus on outcomes, we're often disappointed, versus focusing on these steps, the many steps that it takes to get there and we said it all the time but it's not the destination, it's the journey.
Speaker 2:And yes, looking at the outcome brings fear If it's not an outcome that you don't think you can get there. I just loved taking the outcome out of it initially and setting the goals, instead of going in there and saying I want to swim this exact time or around this time in this event, or I want to do Iron man at this amount of time that you say. I'm going to nail my turns, I'm going to nail my streamline, I'm going to have a great start. I'm going to finish strong.
Speaker 3:I'm going to be great. Show up to practice three times a week. I'm going to yeah the process All those things.
Speaker 2:So the process, and then you know what the outcome happens.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. That's a really great takeaway. You celebrate your adherence to the process and the process itself, and then you take your little wins along the way. I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right, marina, great interview. Marina in the box, love you.
Speaker 3:Love you too. Bye, bye, bye.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to the Champions Mojo podcast. Did you enjoy the show? We'd be grateful if you would leave us a five star review on iTunes to help others find us, and we'd also love to hear from you. We're on all social media platforms or you can reach us at championsmojocom.
