Champion's Mojo for Masters Swimmers
The award-winning podcast for Masters swimmers, adult athletes, and health and wellness seekers striving for personal excellence. Join your host, world-record-setting Masters swimmer, former NCAA Division I swim coach, best-selling author and health coach Kelly Palace, as she dives into inspiring stories, expert insights, and proven strategies to help you unlock your champion mindset. A podcast that champions you!
Champion's Mojo for Masters Swimmers
25 Year Lay Off Doesn't Slow Down Champion Steve Gold, EP 273
In this inspiring episode, we have an engaging conversation with 47-year-old Steve Gold, a swimmer located in Jacksonville, Florida who swims for the Bolles School Sharks Masters. Steve has redefined personal excellence through the sport earning All-American Honors while being a busy working Dad of four! After nearly 25 years away from competitive swimming, Steve's remarkable journey back into the water demonstrates the power of resilience and the transformative impact of pursuing one's passions. He shares insights on his time as a swimmer at Yale, where he served as team captain, and his subsequent hiatus from the sport as he navigated career challenges and family life. Listen for:
• Introduction to Steve Gold, his training regimen and comeback story
• Importance of mental health in sports and exercise
• The role of community and training environment in master swimming
• Tips on balancing competitive swimming with family and work life
• Insights into setting realistic goals as a master swimmer
• Encouragement for adults to engage in competitive swimming
With a background in mental health, Steve passionately discusses how swimming has revitalized not only his physical condition but also his mental wellbeing. He highlights the intrinsic connection between physical fitness and mental health, illustrating how swimming can be both an individual pursuit and a communal experience that fosters teamwork and support. Through Steve’s story, listeners will learn about the importance of finding balance in life while pursuing competitive goals.
As he prepares for upcoming master swimming events, Steve provides valuable advice on how to set realistic expectations, integrate swimming into busy schedules, and the advantages of training within a community. Whether you’re a seasoned swimmer or just beginning your journey, this episode will inspire you to make waves in your own life and encourage you to embrace the joy of competition at any age.
Join us to explore Steve's extraordinary story, filled with determination, passion, and camaraderie—a heartfelt reminder that swimming is not just a sport; it's a lifelong journey towards excellence. Remember to subscribe, share, and leave a review!
Email us at HELLO@ChampionsMojo.com. Opinions discussed are not medical advice, please seek a medical professional for your own health concerns.
Welcome to Champions Mojo. Join us for conversations that inspire and empower you as an adult athlete, fitness enthusiast or master swimmer. Our goal is to make each episode insightful and inspirational and to discover what it takes to build or keep a life of personal excellence. I'm your host, Kelly Pallas, and we're here to champion you. All right, we have a wonderful show today. This is Kelly Pallas, the host of Champions Mojo, and our guest today is Steve Gold. His story is so unique and wonderful because Steve swam at a high level in high school. He was a swim team captain at Yale, but his US master swimming record is pretty much blank until he turns 45. And so he has such a great story of resurgence to coming back to swimming. So, Steve, Such a great story of resurgence to coming back to swimming. So, Steve, welcome to Champions.
Speaker 2:Mojo Thanks, Kelly. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, I want to start with the fact that it looks like these are preliminary results. But even though you've just come back to swimming, you've had a lot of top tens.
Speaker 1:You've had a lot of top tens but it looks like you're going to pull off your first All-American honor for master swimming in the 2024 season in the 200 IM. You're really well-rounded. I looked at your profile. You've got you swim all the strokes so it would make sense that you have the number one 200 IM time from last year. But start with where you came back to master swimming and how, in such a short time, you're kind of swimming at a very high level.
Speaker 2:Swimming growing up. It was always a passion, you know, for me, and I started swimming when I was, you know, an eight and under and in a YMCA in New Jersey, actually Somerset Hills YMCA. It was still a very good YMCA, you know swimming program and and grew up in that environment to, you know, going to bowls, um, and then in Jacksonville, and I lived there, I boarded at the school really to try to take my swimming career to the next level. Ultimately, like you said, I ended up going to Yale and swam there and was, you know, elected captain my senior year, which, at Yale, is a, it's really a great honor. There's just one. They have one captain per sport. It's a Yale tradition where some of the other Ivies or most of the other you know schools and Ivies have usually three captains per sport. Yale is, you know, a single captain, elected by by the peers. So the team will vote at the end of the prior season on who's the you know who's going to be the captain for the next year. And then, like most swimmers, you know you're tired, you are burned out. You know you've put a lot of effort into the sport and I was ready for a break and really concentrated on my career and then, ultimately, my family as well.
Speaker 2:I have four kids. But my career was busy. You know I did a lot of different things. I'm a lawyer by training, but I ended up going into the business world and founded a couple of companies that I ended up growing in the healthcare space. But ultimately, when I found a pause, you know, in those careers where you know, maybe I would have a company sell or a different owner would come in and recapitalize my business and I would find, you know, breaks and pauses I was looking for something to do that was competitive again really, and I love racing, I love competing, and so I'm not one of the master swimmers that you know, just practices.
Speaker 2:I really enjoyed the competing, and so I'm not one of the master swimmers that you know, just practices. I really enjoyed the racing and so I really got into the racing almost right away, like I, maybe I trained for a couple months and was already starting to race, because that's really what I missed and what I loved, and I do think I had such a good base of training. Bowls was really well known as a distance program back in the nineties when I was there and we had a couple Olympians that were distance swimmers and so we would swim. You know, some of the sets. If I repeated them, you know you'd be like, oh my goodness. You know the people don't train like that anymore and we probably did overtrain. But I think for that reason it was kind of easier for me to get back into the pool and get back into swimming shape, just because I had such a foundation laid, you know, in my early years.
Speaker 1:That's wonderful. And so when you did start training, I do know a lot of master swimmers don't like to race so I always try to encourage them because I quote this a lot Nobody's really watching and master swimming, you're just there having fun, so people are nervous. But when you came back to a lot to a lot of people but I love the 800. You dropped in one year from a 1024 at Shark Tank meet to a 958 at this recent Rowdy Gaines meet. How does that happen in a year?
Speaker 2:Well, at that particular event I ended up getting a split and so it's a little it's apples. So that was the split at the Shark Tank meet of my 1500, the mile. So it was 800 on my feet. But you know, if you do look at the events, there has been improvement. And even like an event like the 50 Breast which I just did this weekend too at the Rowdy Gains, and I had done it I think I did it at a solstice meet up in Maryland but but I dropped like 0.3, which is a, you know, year over year, which is a, you know, for a 50 breast short course meters. I think that that I was very happy, you know to, to be able to drop.
Speaker 2:And I'm being more consistent with my practices. I'd say I'm getting in more often. You know I'm trying to mix in some strength training, you know as well, into my routine. But yeah, it's mainly just getting in more consistent and I work hard in practice. I've always kind of worked hard in practice. So I enjoy, you know, even, the racing aspects of a practice.
Speaker 2:And at Bowles, where I swim you know where I went to high school, but also we've now created a master's practice and at Bowles where I swim, where I went to high school, but also we've now created a master's team and I'm back here in Jacksonville after spending time up in New York and Philadelphia and other areas. But I think having a team to train with is really obviously also beneficial, even as a master's swimmer. That's been helpful for me too, whereas in the beginning years of my master's training I was doing a lot more on my own. I'm trying to you know, maybe it's twice a week, three times a week get in with a team you know and be able to train with the team, and then maybe I'm supplementing the two or three times with another one or two times a week, just kind of swimming, loosening up on my own.
Speaker 1:So that sounds like you're swimming about five to six days a week.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's probably right. You know, sometimes I get in and just do a thousand, just nice and easy. And I've also done a couple open waters as well which you're not going to see on the USMS kind of top 10 lists. But those have also been really fun, you know, and interesting for me and different than what I had kind of done in the past. And so sometimes I'll just get in and you know I'll just do a straight thousand or a straight mile and I can get it done in whatever you know, 15, 20 minutes just in the middle of my day and then get back to work.
Speaker 2:So having four kids and a full-time job has got to be a challenge with the training that you're doing. Can you talk about how you fit it in and how that three of your four kids are swimmers and what that looks like when they say, hey, dad's fun, they count for me, right? Like if I get to bring them to the meets, like that, I think that that's really fun and I do get to count for them. You know, in their USA swimming meets they need counters. Now you know the parents chip in and do that. So it's a great kind of relationship that we have and you know they see that. You know dad can still swim, and you know, and I can give them tips here or there when they want to listen. Still swim, and you know, and I can give them tips here or there when they want to listen. But yeah, I mean it's squeezing in the time.
Speaker 2:And then when you travel, obviously you're, you know, travel for work the week is kind of shot. You're just trying to get in as much as you can. So I think you have to have realistic expectations. As a master swimmer, like you're not going to be able to stick to like a set schedule every single week and that's. That's quite all right.
Speaker 2:I think you just try to get in when you can, and whether that's a midday you know you got 20 minutes in the middle of the day, you can get in or whether that's early in the morning or late at night. I think you just have to be flexible and kind of do do what you're able to do. You know, in that given week or month or whatever it is, and you know. Again, I think I'm thankful because of the foundation that I have. It's kind of allowed me to, you know, have better weeks where I'm able to get in more consistently, and then weeks where I'm not able to get in at all but for whatever reason, ultimately I'm still able to race and compete at a decent level, you know, as a master swimmer.
Speaker 1:So it sounds like you took about 20 to 25 years out of the pool. Were you doing anything else, or what were you doing during those 20 years?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd say sporadic weightlifting and sporadic running, but running being like a mile or two I'm not a distance runner and then you know, maybe I would swim a mile or two, not a I'm not a distance runner and then you know, maybe I would swim like once or twice a year if that. But yeah, it wasn't a lot, but enough to. You know, I was always kind of trying to maintain like some athleticism, but it was really, um, my competition during those years was really. One was first academics, and I have two masters in addition to my law degree, so I was in school for a good bit of time. And then you know my work and trying to grow companies. It's really when you're a founder and you're all in and there's a competitiveness to that and there's a time allocation to that. That's, you know, sometimes all encompassing, and so that was really my main focus during those years. But again, I would try to do things here or there. It just it was not consistent Like I have been over the last, you know, probably two, three years now.
Speaker 1:So, doing a little research on your work background, it looks like a couple of the companies that you either founded or worked for were in the mental health industry. How do you correlate those two for swimming and mental health in general and what we see from a lot of swimmers talking about mental health?
Speaker 2:It's huge, you know, and I think when I so I graduated in high school in 95 and college in 99, it was not something that, frankly, we really even talked about. We would talk a little about sports, psychology and performance and things of that nature, but it wasn't really. Like mental health is today and how important it is to think about your mental health as well as your physical health. So that is also a passion of mine, like swimming, and I think that they are related. I definitely feel like my mental health is better, you know, and I feel more positive and more energetic. Frankly, if I could get in a swim, you know, during the day, and even if I, you know, like the Rowdy Games meet this weekend, it's exhausting to do the. You know you do the warmups and you swim your race and you do the warm downs and it takes a lot of time and energy. But there is that, you know, whatever endorphins and runner's high that they call it, but you feel positive about yourself. Even if you didn't have a great swim, you still you did it, you know you competed. It's great for your health and so I think they go hand in hand and so I'm thankful for my opportunity that I've had to kind of grow mental health companies and help people, help therapists, help psychologists, help psychiatrists, you know, in their practices and help them help more people.
Speaker 2:Especially during the COVID epidemic I think that was really a monumental kind of change in our country, with people being, you know, really locked in their homes and apartments and even swim facilities. A lot were closed and here in Florida they closed the ocean, the beaches. You know you couldn't even go on the beach for I think it was a month. So you know people were really restricted in what they could do and a lot of them thankfully turned to counseling and therapy and so forth to talk about what they were going through. So I do think swimming, exercise in general, is really a positive for people's mental health. It's been proven kind of time and time again.
Speaker 2:And master swimming in particular is just a wonderful community, it's a wonderful program. You could find a meet to go to almost every single weekend if you wanted to. You know, within some radius of where you live. It's really a great thing. And I tell other adults, you know, that don't even swim like they should look at you know the potential of, of master swimming.
Speaker 2:You know the the other sports that you know what you can't do football when you're an adult very well, or you know that you have adult basketball leagues and things of this nature. But I think really swimming, running, triathlons, like these kinds of sports, are really lifelong sports and really amazing to watch the other athletes. You know when they're in their. You know their later years. You know you get to see the 80, 90, sometimes there's a hundred plus year olds. You know their later years. You know you get to see the 80, 90, sometimes there's a hundred plus year olds. You know swimming at nationals and it's just unbelievable to watch them and you kind of hope that you're able to swim down the pool when you're their age.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely. The a hundred year old woman at senior games that did a 500 free, all with flip turns, was amazing. Charlotte Sandel We've had her on the show. She's amazing. So obviously prioritizing swimming and fitness in your life has been one of your keys to success, but with so much success that you've had Steve. What are some other rituals or routines, things that you kind of are go-tos to get things done?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean I think today. I mean, well, you know, you get up and you help with the routine on getting the kids to school. I mean, I think that that's the first part of the day and then you jump into your work. Right now I'm working remotely and traveling a good bit, so I think you're balancing the travel with when can you either get in the water or do a quick run or hit the gym or and could you do that that day and then I think, ultimately, like sleep you talk about mental health like sleep is vital.
Speaker 2:I really do try to get that eight, nine hours of sleep per night when I'm able.
Speaker 2:And again, travel does negatively impact that when I'm having to do my work, travel, but when I'm able, and again, travel does negatively impact that when I'm having to do my work, travel, but when I'm not, it really is important that you're kind of getting to bed, you know, at a reasonable time and thankfully I've really not had problems. You know, really like sleeping or getting my phone out in the middle of the night, things like that I do make sure. And again, I'm up to date on all the studies about, you know, technology and mental health and cell phones and things of that nature, and I say I'm pretty good about putting the phone away, you know, after a certain hour at night and just kind of turning it off and letting my mind, you know, get ready for bed, you know, before you ultimately go to bed. You know, get ready for bed, you know, before you ultimately go to bed. I think that that is really crucial to being well rested and really letting your body recharge and heal overnight.
Speaker 1:So, if you want to talk about it, what goals do you have for your future in master swimming?
Speaker 2:Well, kind of like what you said, it looks like I'm getting my first All-American, which is wonderful and, you know, happy and not really expected, but that's again wonderful. I won a couple events this summer at the Senior National Championship in California for Masters, which was great, ended up winning, I think, two breaststrokes and also, I think, the 200 IM there at that meet. Those were goals of mine. I'd like to continue.
Speaker 2:I'm doing all the virtual and you can't see that either, but I've been doing the virtual national championships too, which are, you know, the January is like an hour as far as you can swim, and then there's usually a 5,000 and a 10,000 over the summer and then a three and a six in the fall, and so I did all of those last year and then the year before I did all of them, except for didn't do the hour swim in January because I didn't really know about it.
Speaker 2:But I like using those for training purposes too. It keeps me motivated and doing those is something that I want to continue, you know, year after year, try to do those every year. The virtuals, you know I like to get to, you know, maybe one or two open water events you know, per year I have been going to both of the nationals, you know, both the spring and the summer, at least for like a day or two. I'd like to continue to try to do that. So those are kind of my. My goals aren't really like time related at this point, it's more just. These are the events I'd like to do and compete and show up and if I happen to do a best time kind of as an adult you know I can't compare myself to when I was a kid, but if I can do a best time as an adult, all the better and that's great as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I only look at a best time within an age group, like, okay, this is my best time in this age group, and then I'm in a new age group and it's my best time in that age group. So the January one hour swim is short course yards correct.
Speaker 2:Yep, that's right.
Speaker 1:And how far did you go in one hour I?
Speaker 2:can't remember. It's in the results, but maybe it's close to 5,000, if I remember right 5,000 would seem about right with your 10 minute 800. I think it was maybe 47, 48, 49, if I remember right.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I would love for you to share this passion that you have for racing, because I have it too, and it's not to go beat up on anybody or even get the gold For me, it's wanting to prove myself and challenge myself. Like, if I don't put that on the calendar and go say, okay, this is what I did this year, this is what I did last year, then I don't do it. And also it's the fun, most fun time to see my friends are at meets. But I just would love you know you and I both have this, this love for racing go and race, because you're so right. You opened the show by saying a lot of master swimmers don't race, so put your attorney hat on and plead to the jury why we should go to the meets.
Speaker 2:Well one. I view it as a training right. It's a workout. You are doing a workout. It's harder than you would likely work out on your own, for sure, but even in a group environment and a practice. So I do think the meet is a way to improve your physical fitness, right. And then mental fitness and mental toughness.
Speaker 2:Like you're signing up for events that are very hard and challenging and even someone that loves racing or loves competing, there's part of you that's like you know, I don't really want to do a 400 IM today, you know, like should I do it? And like you're questioning it, and that's natural. But if you, if you do get in and do it and you finish it, like the feeling of you know that completion feeling is something that I think you can't really genuinely get in a practice environment. So I like it and I and kind of like you, like sometimes I'll sign up for events, I'll stick them on the calendar and I want to go to the mall, but sometimes I can't, and that that's okay too, you know, like it's a donation to, you know, the local swim club that was hosting the event and hopefully next year, if I sign up I can go, you know, but if you don't sign up and you don't put on your calendar, you're never, you're never going to that event, right, you don't go and realizing like that's quite all right because you're not going to be able to go to a mall, but I enjoy it. I enjoy the friends there are.
Speaker 2:You know, I get to see some people that I swam against in college and sometimes even in the YMCA swimming in New Jersey, and even different age groups. You know, again, I wore a Yale I don't know whether it was a bag or a parka or something at one of the events and it was a Y Nationals actually. And there was another Yale swimmer, completely different decade than me, that I would have never known, but he came up to me, we chatted and now we see each other a couple times a year at various meets, and so I think it's really a great opportunity, like you said, to meet other swimmers, to reconnect with swimmers that you haven't seen in years and years. And I'm also trying to get some other swimmers that are around my year in college and also in high school to kind of get back into swimming and join me. You know whether it's in the practices or whether it's at some of the meets, so it's a chance to reconnect with people around the nation. That could all come, you know, and you could see them at nationals and so forth.
Speaker 2:But again, I think everyone needs encouragement because everyone's just busy in life and trying to stay afloat, so to speak, in their work and home lives and sometimes to think to add in another element, whether that's training or whether that's racing in a meet, people just think that's too overwhelming.
Speaker 2:But again, I think what you said, people are not watching you right, like you can go to a meet and, you know, just complete the event is an accomplishment. You know, obviously I'm always tracking my best and I want to do well, but the expectations are not like you're swimming at the NCAA championship or the Ivy League championship or the Harvard Yale Princeton dual meet, where everyone is watching and you want, you need to perform because you want your team to win. It's master swimming and we're all doing it really primarily for fitness purposes and to stay healthy and to hopefully be that hundred year old swimmer you mentioned that you had on your program that did a 500 free, I mean with flip turns. That's completely, you know, unbelievable and I think that that's a, that's a goal that maybe all of us should try. You know unbelievable, and I think that that's a goal that maybe all of us should try, you know, to be able to do those kinds of things when we're that age.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I love, love, love and I've said it before, you're kind of twins with me on this is that enter the meet, you know, put it on the calendar, pay the fee and it's like a donation. The number of meets that I have entered that I don't show up at are many, many. So I love, love that steve. So, um, the second to last question before I ask you. The last question is any um of your bulls, sharks, master swimmers you want to give a shout out to, or what you're? You know who you train with with there, or what that training group looks like?
Speaker 2:We have everyone from people that really never competitively swam, that are there just for fitness and really learning strokes even, to triathletes that you know just swimming a portion, you know, and probably swimming is their weakest of the three legs, but you know excellent runners and bikers and compete, you know, kind of nationally and internationally. And then we have people that swam in college, that didn't go to bowls, and then we have people that went to bowls and that are alums and swam in college and then kind of came back. We have a wonderful coaching staff. The head coach of the Masters, sean Abbey, is also one of the kind of head age group coaches for the Bulls Sharks, and then we get a rotation of really all the coaches that are on the Bulls staff will rotate through the Masters program, including the head coach, Peter Verhoff. So it's been, you know, an amazing program for us to be a part of and to get coached by, you know, real, real high level coaches in a master's program and I was part of the group that kind of got it going.
Speaker 2:There was a program maybe 20, 30 years ago and then they didn't have a program at all, um, until it's probably been two, three years ago now, and now we're an official master's program and so forth and and we've had some meets. Now we've had two meets. We're going to continue to try to have a couple local meets there. There haven't been, for jacksonville is a pretty big metro, um now, and there just have not been meet options for master swimmers here in Jacksonville and so that's also really exciting for me to be a part of you know kind of like that master's community and and even for our inaugural meet we don't really have captains but I'm like a unofficial captain of the team and ended up donating you know medals so that we could hand out like a medal at our first you know kind of inaugural bowls swimming meet, which was probably like a year and a half ago now.
Speaker 2:One short course yard, you know meet and then in the summer long course meters meet you know kind of regularly. That's the goal for us as a master's program to be able to offer that opportunity to people in Northern Florida. Traditionally there's a lot of swimming in Orlando, where Rowdy has his meet in the Rosen Center down there, and then in Sarasota, of course with the Sharks program they have a couple meets per year and then in Sarasota, of course with the Sharks program. They have a couple meets per year and then Fort Lauderdale usually has a few meets down that way. But in Northern Florida there's just not a lot of opportunities one for master's programs but also to compete in the meets. So that's something that I'm proud of, that we've been able to do and accomplish.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. I love your passion for swimming. It sounds like you've picked up your captain mantle again there, and I'm sure the area appreciates your leadership. Okay, the last question before the sprinter round. Is there anything that I have not asked you that you would like to share with our listeners?
Speaker 2:No, I don't think so. I mean, I love that you're doing these podcasts. Number one, I think it's it's great for the sport and swimming is one of these sports that everyone rediscovers every four years, you know, for the Olympics, and everyone loves it then. And it's great that more and more people, I think, are interested in the sport and the kids are getting faster and faster, right Like you. Watch the times and it's just unbelievable what they're able to do today, you know. So I'm just thankful that you're doing this podcast and thank you again for having me on.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you. Yeah, master Summers have such unique, great stories. You know everybody's doing like a full-time job and raising kids and doing all kinds of stuff, so it's fun to hear it. All right, I know you tend towards distance, but these are quick one-word or two-word answers. Are you ready?
Speaker 2:Ready.
Speaker 1:Take your mark. What is your favorite sandwich?
Speaker 2:I'd say like a chicken Parmesan sub, you know toasted.
Speaker 1:Okay, what do you own that you should throw out?
Speaker 2:Well, I'd say right now. My son had two big Oscars that died that he had for years and years. They're huge and the tank is sitting in his room like just smells awful. I'm trying to figure out what to do with everything right now, so it's something that we may need to throw out.
Speaker 1:I've never had that answer. That is a really good one. It's usually t-shirts or tennis shoes. Okay, serious animal.
Speaker 2:Was in Wisconsin this week, so I'd say a badger is pretty scary.
Speaker 1:Honey badger, that's bad. Okay, is there a celebrity that you would like to meet?
Speaker 2:I guess I would probably say like a Warren Buffett while he's still alive, I think would be an unbelievable person to sit down and speak with.
Speaker 1:You and my husband. All right. What is the hardest swimming event in the pool to you?
Speaker 2:I'd say 200 fly.
Speaker 1:All righty Favorite movie.
Speaker 2:I'll go with. I'm an 80s kid, so I'll go with Back to the Future, the original.
Speaker 1:Oh, good one, good one. Yeah, Favorite smell.
Speaker 2:Maybe like fresh popcorn oh nice one.
Speaker 1:Do you make your bed every morning? No, no, okay, all right, kickboard or no kickboard.
Speaker 2:I actually did no kickboard.
Speaker 1:We diverge on that. Okay, if you had to listen to one song for the rest of your life, what would it be?
Speaker 2:Fish bouncing around the room.
Speaker 1:I like it. What word comes to mind when you dive in the water? And this is kind of a spiritual word, like, when you dive in that water, what goes through your mind?
Speaker 2:It's blank, but maybe it's like go, you know. But it really part of what I love about swimming is your mind really does go blank a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. That's what Katie Ledecky always says, that she's just blank when she goes in. I love it All right, steve, your passion for swimming is such an inspiration. The reason I do this is because every time I talk to someone like you, it just renews my love for the sport. And thanks for spending this time with us today. Really appreciate you.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much for having me. It's been great.
Speaker 3:Thank you for listening to the Champions Mojo podcast. Did you enjoy the show? We'd be grateful if you would leave us a five-star review on iTunes to help others find us, and we'd also love to hear from you. We're on all social media platforms or you can reach us at championsmojocom.
